Home | Mailing List | Specifications | Care and Feeding | Modifications | Vendors | Literature

 

Weld Or Pin the Cams?

new 10/26/02


----- Original Message ----- 
From:
Jess Shao 
To:
v8sho@v8sho.com 
Sent:
Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:16 AM 
Subject:
Weld or pinning the Cams

Hi,

I have finally found a cam weld location near where i live... but browsing around, i came across SHOshop website that has these comments...

"Our solution is simple. We have offering a solution to the cam situation on the 96-99 V8 SHOs by pressing a roll pin 90 degrees through the long axis on the camshafts. A permanent solution is now resolved. Welding of the cams (on the vehicle or off) or even using Locktite, like some of the internet forum lists have been recommending, is NOT advisable, since warpage of the cams can occur from the extreme heat produced from welding. Some shops are even welding the camshafts while still installed in the car! You may not notice warpage with welded camshafts within the first 15-20,000 miles, but it can and will do damage in the long run. Our fix is permanent and most of all safe. We are currently in negotiations with Ford at the moment and seeking approval as they are deciding on using our reputation on camshaft pinning and our facility as an authorized fix for this serious ongoing problem."

Can anyone comment on the validity of the statements made here in terms of cam welds not being helpful over 20k?

thanks,
Jess
97 TR 51k


I expect factory cams to last 75,000miles. Welded cams to last 1,500,000 miles. Pinned cams to last 4,000,000 miles based on destructive tests done by Ford.

For most of us a million & a half miles is sufficient. But either is fine. Neither is not an option if you intend to keep the car long. Folks without all skills can really make a mess out of a cam weld job, I don't think your local dealership can, would or should try it. In contrast folks like FPS in Atlanta have reportedly done 200 jobs as of 10/26/02.

Timothy Wright


Yeah, UNEQUIVOCAL BS meant to prey on the fears and take advantage of unsuspecting consumers like yourself in the hopes of steering you into their workshop for legal monetary rape. Welding is no more intrusive to heat treated parts than removing mat'l wrt warpage. Both have the potential to induce compromise if not done correctly. Welding done as we have described will not warp the assembly beyond acceptable parameters. Pinning done correctly will not weaken the joint beyond a critical point. Either process done sloppily will cause problems.

Lets dissect their statement;

"since warpage of the cams can occur from the extreme heat produced from welding" - this is true/not true, we are not introducing extreme heat with the addition of four 1/4" in length MIG/TIG tack welds. If one was to run a continuous bead around the sprocket without first tacking to hold as per regular welding techniques then the potential for unacceptable warpage can/will occur. But we are not doing that. Four small tacks is all that is required. Will there be warpage, yes. Anytime you you subject a process onto metal there is movement. Always. That goes for pinning to. When removing mass from a heat treated/untreated component this will relieve internal stresses and cause movement. Amount of movement dependent on mat'l, stresses present, mat'l removal location, removal process, etc.

"Some shops are even welding the camshafts while still installed in the car" - This is the advisable method IMO. When machining/welding/grinding or any other process is to be done, a jig or fixture is commonly used for location, rigidity and alignment. Leaving the assembly in situ does not compromise the process. If we had to lay a full weld around the sprocket then removal would be advisable but then the whole welding procedure would also be different wrt to pre and post heat techniques, filler/fillet size and so on.

"You may not notice warpage with welded camshafts within the first 15-20,000 miles, but it can and will do damage in the long run." - This is now stupid time. I'm not really sure what this statement is purporting to convey. They will not warp now, but later? They may not warp now but damage will occur from...? Unfounded statement without any merit. Scaremongering.

"Our fix is permanent and most of all safe" - I'm not going to trash this "safe and permanent" fix as it's better than doing nothing. There are those of us that believe the pinning process does not properly address the cause forces but it most likely does a sufficient job of reinforcing the joint to the point of it not being a factor. Pinning will only hold the sprocket at two points on the dial which would be OK for strictly radial forces. Here nor there, but there are inherit problems and precautions with that process as well.

"We are currently in negotiations with Ford at the moment and seeking approval as they are deciding on using our reputation on camshaft pinning and our facility as an authorized fix for this serious ongoing problem." - No comment.

I am not anti-pinning process but rather anti-misinformation. I have assisted several off list with technical advise on how to execute the pinning process at home. All info should be presented in a non-biased manner for people to determine their fix of choice. I'm very disappointed they have left this "Technical" advertisement posted, in my eyes it detracts from the credibility of their shop. It's like Microsoft posting that all other OS for your PC are unworthy and WILL harm your computer. Some would actually believe it.

Hope this helps Jess, had to delete most before posting to stay politically correct. *<:)

Good luck on your fix, need any more info just give a shout.

John Hamilton (Hammy)
Ptbo, ON, CAN.
97 ES 105k km 91 Mocha/Mocha 150k km
Turbos Stock
Yoko db's


Bullsh*t!!!! I am around 20K miles since FPS welded my cams. I run nitrous on a regular basis. Had the top off to clean the intake 2 weeks ago. Dial indicated cams and still straight.

Wendell
97 T-red
91 5 spd


I am closing in on 20,000 on my motor with welded cams on my supercharged motor and have not had a problem with them.

Carter Fuji
'97 ES Whoosh


Contact Information