Flat Rate Tech - Cam Failure # 704

i have a 97 SHO I had a mini diag. ran on it, came up o2 ( bank 1 sensor2) circuit malfunction (replaced it),egr flow insufficient(replaced egr ) cylinder 2 misfire replaced plugs and #2 coil on. I am still having problems, it is hard to start and even harder to keep running. when it does start i have to keep the r's up and then it will only idle at about 2-3 hun rpms, and not for very long before it dies. It is also hard to get the rpms up without flooring the pedal and then it drops off significantly as soon as i lift. I NEED MY SHO TO GO!!HELP!!codes are p0141, p0401,p0302

In the first place you have thrown parts at your problems instead of diagnosing. If the02 code said, circuit malfunction, doesn't mean the sensor was bad just based on the code. Ford EGR valves rarely fail, you probably have a sensor or vacuum problem.

Let me guess, Autozone checked the codes and told you what you needed(in their infinite wisdom).

Have you checked fuel pressure? How about idle control valve?

If I were to take a swag at it, I'd guess the IAC is sticking intermittently. Your O2 code may be related to your misfire and/or EGR problem. Dennis called it, EGR valves rarely fail in these cars nowadays, the ports in the intake/throttle body getting restricted and/or faulty DPFE sensors are the most common EGR system failures.

Autozone's good for the free code check, but run like hell when they start offering you suggestions on what to replace to fix your problem.

SWAG is about the best we can offer him, I guess. Without codes or details that's it!

The 02 code he quotes is circuit failure, misfire or other problems shouldn't affect the circuits. This is why I always prefer a code.

Who replaced the coil? If I am not mistaken, #2 is the second in the rear starting on the passenger side. It is a lot of work to change one, so some people change all 4. I just changed four on mine (#3 was bad). I had a power balance test done on it and it showed as #3 bad. the test cost $60. It had a minor miss at low speed and the CEL was flashing. At highway speeds it was unpleasant to drive. I only drove it to the dealers and back (10 miles). If something wasn't hooked up right after the coil change the engine would run very lean.

I have been doing the work myself. I need to know how to do ,or where is the best place to go to check the fuel pressure and check the idle control valve . Any thoughts? I had considered having the car towed to a repair shop to have a diag. run but don't want to shell out to much cash if it is something i can check myself .

There's a valve on the fuel rail for checking the pressure.

 

As Ian said, there is a schraeder valve on the fuel rail you can hook a fuel pressure gauge to. Symptoms of low fuel pressure are hard starting/poor running. I had a Chrysler that ran rich due to low pressure (black smoke from tailpipe). As for the IAC, sometimes tapping it with a hammer or the handle of a screwdriver will cause it to work. You are sure you hooked up all the hoses and changed the correct coil, right? On the SHO V8, the only known issues I am aware of is 1) coilpacks failing especially on the rear bank, 2) wiring issues under the surge tank on the rear due to heat 3) camshaft failure. If your cams haven't been welded or pinned, we cannot rule that out.

well i finally got a chance to check fuel pressure it's at about 33 , tried tapping the iac valve still have the same problem. could an exhaust leak cause the engine to not want to stay running and make it hard to start? I think i might be grasping at staws at this point. my next step (unfortunatly) is to a Ford dealership and i know they are going to tax me on this one!Lord why did'nt I become a mechanic????

33# seems low to me, every car I have worked on recently has been 39-40#. What is the pressure after it sits? Does it bleed off? It shouldn't lose more than a pound or so overnight. Has the fuel filter been changed recently?

I agree that 33 PSI seems very low to me. Is there a residual fuel pressure leakdown? Leave the fuel pressure gauge hooked up overnight and see how much of a drop in fuel pressure you find, if any. You could have a leaky injector or a bad pressure regulator in the pump itself. Did the Check Engine light flash before it came on and stayed on solid? If so, the means you have a class 'A' misfire which means the type of missfire that will result in catalyst damage, if not dealt with in time. Hope this helps.

well the bad news came today,the shop i took it to said that the cam shaft was not turning on the intake of the front bank. they are saying they have to pull the engine replace the cams, chains, and guides. they are quoting me a price of 4300.00. I love the car but don't have that kind of cash laying around. does anyone know of someone around columbus,ohio that can do the work for less?? any help would be great or she is up for sale.
 

I would advise you to fix it yourself or take it to:
FPS Automotive
8810 Bright Star Road
Douglasville, GA 30135
Voice : (770) 949-7191
Located 15 minutes west of Atlanta off I-20 just past Six Flags over Georgia
I am not a technician myself, but I drive and maintain a V8 SHO. I had the cams welded at this place.

One place in Ohio is:
Eric Cahalin
Rickety Engineering
4392 Mellinger Rd.
Canfield, Ohio 44406
E-mail; egor96@aol.com
shop: 330-270-0460
office: 330-793-1173
fax: 330-793-1327

Or you could try:
Custom Performance
4314 Crest Drive
Lafayette, IN 47905

+1 765.447-1008
swinford@insightbb.com

It is just a guess on my part, but I doubt the chains and tensioners need replaced. The cam will need replaced as well as several of the valves. This is an interferance engine and you can bet the farm on one or more bent valves. Used SHOs that don't run aren't worth a cup of warm spit. In my opinion, it is a wonderful car and worth putting a little money into. As long as your block and pistons are OK, I would fix it. One possibility is installing a used head. Make sure that you get the cams welded when you get this fixed.[u] As I said before the only known issues are cams, coilpacks, wiring under the runners in the back and a slightly weak transmission. Otherwise the engine is bulletproof.

 

thanks for the info Jay. I justa got off the phone with the shop where my baby is and he made the suggestion of finding(not aloud to do it there) a shop to have the cams welded. well this went from a major expense to hopefully a small chunk of change. Thanks again to all who have thrown some advice my way. I'll let you know how it goes in the next week or two.

You should really check out www.v8sho.com

Cam failures are a common occurance. There's a class action lawsuit pending against Ford for it. Report your VIN and other details to Larry Eck at Larry@v8sho.com

There are several options when you repair this. The head will have to come off so you will need new head bolts and gasket. However, you may decide to replace the head with a used one that includes the cams. If you do, the valve adjustment will probably be OK. If you replace the cam and sevaral valves, you will need a source of valve adjustment shims. Cams are expensive, at one time they cost almost $1000, but I hear they have come down since than. Perhaps you have an itemized estimate from the Ford Dealer who diagnosed this.
Once the broken parts are fixed, there are still some options. For example, I would replace the sparkplugs. I would clean the butterflies for the IMRC. They will be off at some point and you just dip them in carb cleaner and wash them off. Consider replacing the 4 rear coilpacks. The heat makes them fail and they are real hard to get to. Inspect the wiring that goes side to side at the rear of the engine. Again, heat causes this to break down. It may need nothing or maybe just tape it up again. Last, weld all the cams including the new one. If your intake cam has slipped, it cannot be repaired by welding.

Any news yet?

I have been talking with a friend who seems to think this is a timing problem.He 's a ford circle track racer. I know that the 120,000 mile is a timing chain replacement, got that tidbit of info from a ford mech.(if i could just convince him to help me out inexpensively life would be good). I am wondering though, does the engine need to be pulled to change the timing chain?Come on ford gods and cut me some slack!! We are having a cash flow problem right know and I need this to be less of a burden on my bank account....
MM

I am not a tech, but I drive and maintain a V8 SHO. The crank drives the intake cams on both heads and a short slave chain is used on each side to drive the exhaust cam. If the cam on the front side is not turning and the rear cam is, then it has to be a cam failure in my book. It is pretty simple to pull the cam cover on the front side if you need to convince yourself. Have you called any of the contacts I gave you?

I've never heard of anyone ever replacing the timing chain on their V8 SHO and I've been on the V8SHO mailing list for 5 years. If there is a timing issue it's because one of the sprockets have slipped.